Campaigning for the rights of Grandparent carers and all Kinship carers in the U.K.
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If you have a question or query for Nigel Priestley please post as new topic Nigel will answer ASAP.
If you need to join the forum email me with a user name and password (you can change password later) grandparentsasparents@hotmail.com
Posts that have had replies will be marked with POST ANSWERED lindamcev@hotmail.com
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Dear Mr Priestly Do you just take on just cases for grandparent carers or can you take on any kinship carers case?? as I have a friend who has taken on her two nieces and she needs help. Yours Alexia.
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Answer: We deal with all kinship cases – including rep kinship carers in care proceedings!
Nigel Priestley
Partner
Email: nigel.priestley@ridleyandhall.co.uk
Tel : 01484 538421
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Dear Nigel Is it true that if you have an R.O. you can not take the council to court and you cant claim any foster care allowances? thank you Sally
. ANSWER: The most important thing to avoid is getting a Residence Order before resolving whether the LA have any duties in respect of the child being cared for.
A RO gives the holder Parental Responsibility – it stops a child being a looked after child. You can’t therefore get Fostering Allowances. You may get Residence allowance but this is means tested and often less than Fostering Allowance.
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Dear Nigel What is the criteria for taking a council to court have the children got to have been in care before you took them on thank you Sally
ANSWER: As to challenging the LA the key question is – what role if any did they have in placing the child with the grandparent. Care Proceedings aren’t a prerequisite. We have to show that the child was a looked after child.
Last edited by sally (2010-03-13 09:17:57)
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Dear Nigel I have an RO should I be getting an allowance from the council or is that just with a special guardians order
Hope you can help Sandra
ANSWER: You can apply for a Residence allowance The L.A. can exercise their discretion in deciding whether to pay the Residence Allowance, but if the child was a looked after child before you applied for the Residence Order that will give a base on which to build. There will be a problem if you live in a different LA to the one that placed the child with you -Generally this is the key question with regard to all holders of ROs.
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Dear Mr Priestley: my grandson had been in care in Manchester. then he was brought to me, this was four years ago am I entitled to payment from Manchester council or is it to late I have an RO?
Wendy
(Post Answered see below)
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Dear Nigel My grandson was also in care in Manchester he was brought to me one evening I have had him from him being two . The social gave me nothing as I was working had to get a loan for bed bedding etc I was pushed into getting an RO (which I paid for) was told if I didnt the daughter would just take him off me havent had any help since just tax credit/child benefit . If its true that you cant get foster allowance because you have an RO is it legal for the social services (who know this) to push unaware grandparents into applying for ROs Havent they got a duty to inform you of the consequences!! shouldnt they make you aware of your rights !!!
As to me its like a legal way of getting of the hook They frighten you into getting ROs then when you do they wipe their hands of you and you have no way out Please let me know if I could take the social services to court or anyone for that matter Thanking you for your time Sue and partner from Blackpool
Answered by telephone call
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Dear Mr Priestly.My grandson wasn,t in care,s.s had some concerns with his mum and had been appointed a social worker.I had phone call from his school and asked if i could pick him up as mum didn,t.S,S became involved again and with the advise from s.s and also appointing me a solicitor i was forced to apply for RO.I have had him for 9 yrs now and no contact with mum.S.S called this private arrangement and walked away.Am i entilted to any support as i am now struggling with finance.sandra.
Answer to your question – have you ever asked for a Residence Allowance from LA? What was their response? They can exercise their discretion in deciding whether to pay a Residence Allowance but if the child was a looked after child before you applied for the Res Order that will give a base on which to build. There will be a problem if you live in a different LA to the one that placed the child with you -Generally this is the key question with regard to all holders of ROs.
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Answers to all the above dealing with residence orders ROs:
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Thanks for the questions. The most important thing to avoid is getting a Residence Order before resolving whether the LA have any duties in respect of the child being cared for. An RO gives the holder Parental Responsibility – it stops a child being a looked after child. You can’t therefore get Fostering Allowances. You may get Residence allowance but this is means tested and often less than Fostering Allowance.
If asked for advice tell grandparent /kinship carers to avoid taking out a RO until they have spoken to us!
Nigel Priestley-Partner
Email: nigel.priestley@ridleyandhall.co.uk
Tel : 01484 538421
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I would just like to say how grateful I was for the advice that Nigel Priestley gave me in the past regarding my two grandchildren, one of whom had serious behavioural problems for many years. Now we have had SGOs for nearly two years after fostering for many years.
I am not sure whether this subject below has been raised before as I have only just come back to this forum.
Although I am not planning on anything untoward happening to both my husband and myself I just wondered about the complexities of this Guardian that we can name in our wills. As our grandchildren are now in their teens we are not planning on changing our wills and would not wish the stress, that comes with the relationship with our grownup daughter because we are bringing up her children, bestowed on anyone else!
We had to go through a very tough assessment for SGOs and we can exercise parental responsibilities to the exclusion of all others. However the birth parents retain parental responsibility as far as I know even if their power to exercise it is very restricted.
I cannot imagine that one would be able to name just anyone as a guardian in a will. The Guardians normally named in a will are those where there is no-one alive with PR. With Special Guardians the parents still have PR although limited and can, with leave of court, get such things as contact, medical and educational factors changed. Again the parents can go back to court if there is a significant change in circumstances to try and get their children back.
How does this work if one names a Guardian in your will?
Response from Nigel:
The grandparents can indicate in their will whom they wish to be the Guardians for the children. It is simply an indication of intent and should be done. Clearly the parents have the opportunity to go back to court if they are able to show that there circumstances have radically changed and equally the grandparents cannot delegate PR. The carers who are nominated would have to go to court to get PR either thro’ a RO or SGO.
Last edited by mtg_evg (2010-03-16 19:14:06)
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Dear Mr Priestley
four weeks ago social services put my two grandchildren in my care, one six years one fourteen months,social services are doing a core assesment.I work full time but at the moment i am on sick leave due to my circumstances. I have been told to apply for a residence order but i do not get legal aid.
Shouldnt social services get me the order and am i entitled to any help? as If i do go back to work it may have to be part time.
Hi again I forgot to let you know Nigel Priestly is now helping me thank you so much Lynne.
ANSWER: Mr Priestley is now dealing with this case
Last edited by lynne (2010-03-23 13:40:50)
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Hi Nigel,
We've had our grandson with us since October last year. SS removed him from his mothers care (she's 17). They got her to sign some forms, rang me, told me they were taking him off her as there was serious risk of harm through neglect. He's on a CPP but the didn't remove him with any care orders or protection orders.
We asked to be assessed as kinship foster carers, they refused our request as they don't recognise Grandparents as Kinship carers (Bolton LA).
We've fought for financial help, we don't qualify for legal aid, we want our grandson to live with us permanently and would like to apply for a SGO. They will give us up to £300 towards legal help, but that's it. As they have stated since they removed our gs that they will not support him going back to his mum and that they placed him with us (although they have tried to say it was a private agreement) - they should fund a solicitor. We have put in a formal complaint - which has brought us a little financial help and 2 paid days at nursery. The formal complaint hasn't been fully resolved, my emails over the past 4 weeks to the team leaer have been ignored. Yesterday we received an email from gs sw stating he was getting a different sw from the looked after team.
Can we get legal aid in our gs name?
It as confused us no end and i'd appreciate it if you could help, there's so much more to this.
Thanks, Lisa & Phil
first answer:
depending on your circumstances you can get legal aid for a case involving your grandchild
What is Legal Aid and who can get it?
Legal Aid helps with the cost of legal advice for people cannot afford it.
If you need help with the costs of legal advice, you can apply for legal aid. Whether you will receive it will depend on:
The type of legal problem you have.
Your income (how much you earn) and how much capital (money, property, belongings) you have, called financial eligibility and
Whether you have a reasonable chance of wining your case and whether it’s worth the time and money
For more information on legal aid - www.legalservices.gov.uk/public/help/in … aflets.asp
.Awaiting second reply
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POSTED BY LINDA ON BEHALF OF GAP MEMBER:
Dear Nigel:
I attended an LAC review today, and was told by the Reviewing Officer that Kent County Council are mounting a Legal Challenge in the High Court over the support services given to children placed with Kinship carers. KCC are apparently arguing that children placed with family are not entitled to support services outside of a befriend and assist service. This obviously goes against the Southwark Judgement. She said the KCC legal challenge was being supported by other LA's
The Reviewing officer spoke of her concerns as she mentioned 100 families within Kent who were deemed LAC and were in Kinship placements who, if KCC won this case, would have their support services removed, and this could have an impact country wide for all Kinship carers.
Assuming she hasnt got her Childrens Act sections, and her judgements wrong, this is quite worrying.
We were wondering if you had heard anything along these lines, or maybe if the question of whether KCC are mounting this challenge could be put to Ridley and Hall.
Thanks for your time,
ANSWER FROM NIGEL PRIESTLEY
We are awaiting judgement in the High Court on one of our cases involving Kent. It is an important case which may go to Appeal if it goes against us. It is on the issue of payments to Kinship carers and s20 accommodation responsibilities . I don’t know if the IRO is referring to this case.
The answer is that any kinship carer in Kent who is concerned should get in touch with us urgently. All is not lost!!
We have just settled two cases against Kent on behalf of a grandparent carer and a friends carer. In both cases Kent paid a 5 figure payment representing back payments and agreed to pay at the appropriate fostering rate. In both cases they were facing a Judicial Review. Press Releases about both cases are likely to be issued in the next 7 days.
Nigel Priestley Partner
Email: nigel.priestley@ridleyandhall.co.uk
Tel : 01484 538421
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NIGEL, CAN YOU HELP US. We are aunt & uncle of five children that have lost their mum a year
ago (no dads with parental responsibility left) three of whom are
under eighteen. The youngest (ten years old) came to live with us,
after heavy involvement of social services. The social worker even
signed the Will as witness, after persuading my sister to name me as
guardian for the youngest. No guardians were named for the other two.
LA withdrew from the case as soon as the child was tranfered and
didn't even bother to answer our request to be assessed for kinship
foster care (even though they initiated three viability assessments)
claiming ours was a volontary private arrangement. We are now in the
process of acquiring a SGO in our own town but our LA hasn't done a
proper assessment and refers to the originating LA for funding.
We have asked the court to decide that the originating LA is the
responsible one, that they should have assessed us as kinship foster
carers, that they should have supported us as kinship foster carers
and to give a SGO after all that has been settled. But we do not know
if the court has that possibility. Should we abandon the SGO and
focus on our position as foster carers first?
Aunt + Uncle
ANSWER FROM NIGEL:
the problem here is that you may probably have the benefit of legal representation – so I have to be a little careful in what I say. The principle remains that if the local authority is shown to have played a significant role in placing the children and then regulating the placement by having M assessed or they themselves assessed then prima facie the LA may have a case to answer.
We need to know more – where it is what position the present SGO application is at, are LA funding it. You can speak to me if you wish. You obviously have a grasp of the issues – have you raised these with your lawyer and what was the response?
N
Nigel Priestley
Partner
Email: nigel.priestley@ridleyandhall.co.uk
Tel : 01484 538421
Last edited by sam@xtremities.co.uk (2010-04-21 22:26:12)
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SPECIAL GUARDIANSHIP - BUDGET PROPOSALS - HMRC BN37
New laws have been passed on income tax for Special Guardians. Whereas the whole document is confusing it makes statesments that I would like clarifying.
Item 11. Following informal consultation about new income tax relief for shared lives carers, it has been decided that carers who take on legal parental responsibility for a child should be taxed in a similar way to those who have adopted a child.
I have read several documents whilst I was in the process of going through the SGOs that we have been awarded for my grandchildren and it has pointed out to birth parents that they do not lose PR. These documents also said as far as I can remember also stated that we did not have PR as Special Guardians but exercise it to the exclusion of all others. After all we grandparents have taken on our grandchildren some of us in retirement. It ends when the children become 18 years so it is nothing like adoption. On top of this if the parents do get 'Leave of Court' they can challenge it and go to court for contact, educational and medical matters as far as I know. So this is nothing like adopters who hold legal PR.
I don't understand the implications of this document for us with SGOs but if I am right then I do think that someone should take the HMRC to task
Please put my mind at rest. I am an old age pensioner who has been fortunate enough to fight and receive an SGO allowance after years of hell in fostering with a local authority who blackmailed us and threatened us.
ANSWER FROM NIGEL:
I don’t have the expertise to answer the first question. I have forwarded it to my colleagues at Family Rights Group to enquire if they can assist.
ANSWER FROM FRG:
Re Previous question on Tax – this is the response from FRG
“This carer has misunderstood. The budget reforms were undoubtedly good news - HMRC budget note BN37 confirms kinship carers will benefit from the new shared lives carers’ tax relief. There was also a new tax exemption for carers of children under special guardianship orders and residence orders.
I haven't got my head entirely around the full implications in terms of who will benefit but I've copied in Pippa from Fostering Network and Robin Williamson from the Low Incomes Tax Reform Group who might be able to provide more details.”
If they have any more information we will post it here :
Last edited by mtg_evg (2010-04-22 08:32:26)
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Hi We have had a SGO for our two g/c gained in Jan 10. They were living with us under a IRO for 18 months after judge agreed home circumstances were unsafe and as ss were trying to get mum sorted. We tried with ss to rehab them back to her but it failed and ss called me at work, to go get them back from the childminders as they were on their way to tell mum she failed and wanted thenm safe. We fought like hell for financial help and got little except minimal help with nursery costs. We were financially assessed and they said we earned too much at the time. Guardian critised LA because of lack of funding.Now my hubby has retired and he acts as main carer for g/c I still work. Would we now be able to get LA to pay us SGO allowance? I later found out that after all the time in telling ss problems and going to a FGC were they were placed on CPR, I made a complaint and ss wrote to tell me that "they were very sorry but they forgot to impliment the agreed care" plan so knowone was monitoring them and they were left in squalid dnagerous conditions so bad that the sw the court judge ordered to check the home said no to their return. Can I get my g/c any redress for what I see was a breech of their HR.
Thanks
ANSWER FROM NIGEL PRIESTLY:
There is no reason why you cannot apply for SGO Allowance – the support plan is annually reviewable. This is yet another case where I guess no thought went into deciding whether an IRO was the right order. SGo Allowance is means tested and annually reviewable. This also raises the question as to whether LA were prepared to fund an allowance but didn’t pay because of means test or whether in principle they wouldn’t pay SGO Allowance. If the latter you should contact us.on 012484538421
Re breach of statutory duty - - much depends on length of time LA failed to act and the ascertainable impact on child. Could as an alternative go to Ombudsman.
N
Nigel Priestley
Partner
Email: nigel.priestley@ridleyandhall.co.uk
Tel : 01484 538421
Last edited by alibobs (2010-04-26 23:49:05)
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Just wanted to say that Shabana Jaffar is now looking at our case. Thank you so much Ridley & Hall.
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Dear mr priestly i contacted your office last year i was left holding the baby its now been 9 years i wonder is it because i have a RO that that my case has not been pursued mary reeve lowestoft suffolk
Answer/// I don’t know the details of your case but having a Residence Order is a real problem where the Local Authority placed the children
If you could post more details// how you came to have the child etc or contact us again.
Nigel Priestley
Partner
Email: nigel.priestley@ridleyandhall.co.uk
Tel : 01484 538421
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Hi,my name is Mrs Joyce Powell my situation at the moment is that i have my 2 grandchildren who have lived with myself and my husband,they have lived here for 2yrs they came to me after the childrens other grandparent split up and so they came to stay with me,i have nothing in place legally only a letter from the grandfather who had the RO to say he was too ill to look after them and hands all responsibilty over to me,we did go and see a solicitor but we could not afford to go any further because we both work we couldnt get legal aid.I was made redundant 2 yrs ago so my wage now is half what i was on and 2 extra mouths to feed and clothe so at the moment there is a lot of financial and emotional stress in the house,my granchildren are Jessica 12,Stuart 10,hope you can offer some advise.
Re question // answer from Nigel Priestley 23 June 2010
At the moment Joyce has no parental responsibility (PR). It looks as if Social services were never involved. If that is the case then she cannot look to the local authority to help. She can get PR by Residence Order or Special Guardianship Order. For information see Family Rights Group website. She can apply just by going to court –they will help her with the application.
She needs to check she is receiving all the benefits she is entitled to
She needs to check if she has made a will – does she and her partner want to make provision for the grandchildren?
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